Maybe "Karen" is the fictitious name the ignorant/uncaring pilot in this story gave himself!? like this one. That's movie crap. Keep up the anti-mask bs. The overall outcome will depend on the situation in question and the consequences of the incident. I've been given instructions that I don't agree with. IMO he needs to have his ticket pulled for a year minimum. 1NR, exit the Bravo immediately"N731NR (whining): "I've been talking to you the whole time. Subject: FOIA 2020-007191WP DUE: 8/6/2020, 411A Highland AvenueSomerville, MA 02144-2516, Subject: Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) Request 2020-007191WP. Karen Mosley apparetly is clueless about aviation. Bravo airspace, like Ben said, is the airspace around major airports in the country. I'm a Retired LAS Controller. Most helpful comments ( as chosen by the OMAAT community ). 3 This pilot is more than likely going to have to do recurrent training probably 10 to 15 hrs before privalages can be restored. The guy should be grounded for a nice long while. https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/a1wehj/so_who_has_one_of_these/ Its about attitude, and my only (very generous) defense of this pilots terrible attitude is that all of us are more tense and reactive these days with the covid pandemic, elections, riots, BLM, and other socio-political upheavals were dealing with globally. It appears that this pilot is a child of the "Magenta Line", it looks like he flies with automation on a lot. Not a cool move on his part. The main reason is safety to clear an area around the airport for takeoffs and landings. I will answer the question exactly as written: > When ATC has you call. What a name for a company! Even the big airline pilots (American, Delta, etc.) I dont see any defense to his behavior. Anarchists on the ground, anarchists in the air. Go read the news HERE AND NOW and find out when we call the cops with the .50 BMGs to take out one guy going to the store because he looks "suspicious".*. Double that. 800 Independence Avenue, SW She refuses and he petulantly retorts back. - attitude, attitude, attitude, and I'm not talking about the aircraft. Reminds me of center frequencies ignoring calls from VFR aircraft. Cut off a commercial airline at the beginning of his short final resulting in a missed approach and go round for him. Should you wish to inquire as to the status of your request, please contact the assigned FOIA Coordinator. Pull that @$$holes license and give him a huge fine. Outside of banner ads published through the Boarding Area network, this compensation does not impact how and where products appear on this site. If the pilot is unsure of an ATC clearance, they can simply request clarification from ATC. I'm not so sure she would know how to "buy a clue"!? This guy is a class-one "all about me" narcissist who makes GA pilots look bad. There is zero excuse for wasting ATC's time in a Class B in this age of airliners everywhere. . no no, Im saying the process in place is unnecessary - this phone call is more like a call to an upset friend than what is supposed to a dispassionate, factual entity (ATC, FAA). She is going to give him the number when he's ready. Even if the controller cleared him into Bravo, that's no place to question her. I fly in the busy Chicago airspace as a private pilot and the vast majority of Private pilots are as professional as the air transport pilots, and are often much less complacent in and around the class B and class C airspace. and our Its ridiculous that youre allowed to take the control of a Cessna independently at 60-80 hours of learning. I won't belabor those points. The first is to signal that the pilot is done speaking especially. Always IFR but I still remember feeling like a pain in the ass for asking for VFR service from a controller having a bad day. For more information, please see our (Apologies if external links aren't allowed.). That being said, its not just a comfort level thing or willingness issue - its often a safety judgement. You don't insist you didn't make a mistake. The pilot of N731NR is a jerk, as well as an unsafe pilot that should not be flying. Wrong. First of all, I've never gotten one, and don't plan to get one. Who knows what the FAA would consider a serious offense if we ever make a legitimate error? He exercised his PIC. Please find attached the completed copy of your FOIA request number 2020-007191 from the Aviation Data Systems Branch in Oklahoma City. However, if you are unaware that you have made a mistake, or you have purposely broken the rules, then it is likely that you will have to take part in further testing or remedial training. saturn in ardra nakshatra pada 2 n731nr pilot deviation. This pilot should have been arrested and given a breathalyzer upon landing. The ONLY reason aviation is the safest form of transportation is precisely because everything is taken so seriously. Also in this case, N1NR is crossing directly into the path of other aircraft's landing approach (2 Southwest airplanes at that moment were landing). He was wrong in what he did but I had to voice this opinion. This notice provides new procedures for investigating pilot deviations (PD), and completing FAA Form 8020-18, Investigation of Pilot Deviation Report by certificate-holding district offices (CHDO), Flight Standards District Offices (FSDO), and certificate management offices (CMO) with oversight of air carrier operators certificated under Isnt the airspace over international airports congested (and dangerous) enough without these general aviation Cesena clowns and the Harrison Fords of the world putting the rest of us at risk? He let his situational awareness slip, not a good thing. It would be one thing if he "unintentionally" violated the Class B airspace (how exactly do you do that in this day and age?). Anyway, a video has just been uploaded of an interaction between an air traffic controller and a pilot over the skies of Las Vegas on June 20, 2020. Please inform me prior to conducting any service demanding fees.I would prefer the request filled electronically, by e-mail attachment if available or CD-ROM if not. 24 votes, 30 comments. Id. People get frustrated in the air just like they do in cars and dont get their license suspended. Let the appropriate agency (the FAA) handle this. Second, yes, people make mistakes, and when someone tells you "Hey you made a mistake here's Karen: Thank you for your pointing out you're anti-USA and somehow a pilot incursion into Class Bravo airspace has to do with "anti-mask BS". For everyone making your amazing judgment calls on the Henderson controller: When approach calls tower about a deviation, they may or may not give details. airworthiness of an aircraft or the current aircraft configuration. Turns out he's a slumlord, "supplement" pill pusher, and owns a "wealth generation" company. He had to pass my father's exam before IP could sign off on him. Air traffic controllers are susceptible to power trips and moods and biases, just like everyone else. P.S. No one commented on the commercial airliner that had to deviate (immediate drop in altitude) from his glide path when he got a visual on the offending email plane. The tower controller likely doesn't care, as he won't be handling it. If this pilot had responded to the controllers first comment with, Oh my gosh. Been there, done that. Where do I go on the Net to get ATC chatter at RDU? Or the one over Cerritos in 1986? Especially for psychological problems, and probably especially if something's making you hypoxic below 6000 feet. Second in a high traffic area like near an airport multiple pilots can be on the same channel, it is a way to identify the pilot speaking as one pilot may sound like another. Nobody gives a f*. This leads the pilot to tell ATC to clear him. Friday. I've been given instructions that I don't agree with. Alan BillingsFOIA Business AnalystFederal Aviation Administration AFN-400(O) 202-267-6352alan.billings@faa.gov, Subject: RE: Freedom of Information Act Request: FAA records for N731NR. However, this data alone does not provide the basis for a determination regarding the. You don't get to tar the rest of us with his brush. The magic words that should raise the hairs on the back of your neck are "possible pilot deviation." It goes without saying that you should remain vigilant as you fly around the national. Advertiser Disclosure: Some links to credit cards and other products on this website will earn an affiliate commission. There are "occupations" of the Seattle State Assembly. Pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act, I hereby request the following records: An electronic copy of:- any accident, investigation, pilot deviation reports, legal enforcement actions (incl suspensions, revocations and/or monetary penalties) or FSDO records (including statements or phone recordings from Las Vegas or Henderson Tower ATC regarding a possible pivot deviation on June 20, 2020 where N731NR may have entered Bravo airspace without clearance*)- from 2018-Nov-5 to present,- of owner WIFE APPROVED LLC, registration N731NR, or Jeff Wachner. It causes paperwork (at the very least) on both sides and is also distracting from other important duties. I once ate spices in the Old City. N1NR answers back that "he's flying". "Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not forthemselves, and under a just God, cannot long retain it. In this case, N1NR is not landing at Las Vegas but at a different airport and is just passing through the area. and I think you are either that rude pilot or his wife. But Id recommend against posting it, even if that person turns out to be the idiot in question. These guys & women keep 10-20 balls in the air constantly..you think you can do better?? Blatantly ignoring ATC is criminally gross negligence. I dont know what will fix that. Don't assume the pilot flying owns the aircraft. If you read what I wrote with an open mind and still think I have a stick up my ass, go read up on Kobe Bryant the basketball legend no longer with us because someone buckaroo'd it. Then landed on the beach. There are riots. Really when you hit "submit" you should have not. Answer (1 of 8): Forgive me, but I have a tendency to twist ambiguous questions like this. WWFeldman Pre-takeoff checklist Joined: Nov 11, 2019 Messages: 107 Display name: WWFeldman I'm sure we all remember our favorite bravo buster. See more about our ethics policies here. 731NR | Pilots of America Home Forums Controlled Airspace Flight Following 731NR Discussion in ' Flight Following ' started by WWFeldman, Oct 29, 2020 . Thank you.Respectfully,Geneva LaingManagement and Program Analyst, Management & Administrative Support Team, AJV-W640, Northwest Mountain Regional OfficeATO Western Service CenterResource Management Group2200 S. 216th St., 3rd Floor, 3N-458Des Moines, WA 98198Office: 206-231-3337Geneva.Laing@faa.gov, [Your new Mission Support Services Logo! Pierce, April 6, 1859. There's no stick up anyone's ass here just concerned people who want to ensure the people who trust us to get them to point B are safe. That's the whole point of talking to you.". There must be zero tolerance. My father was an Air Traffic Controller when the accident happened over San Diego in 1979 (not the one on duty when the accident occurred) so I know just as much about the history of this airspace as you claim to know, maybe even more. I was interested in being a Pilot but it shocks me how awful other pilots can be, they even revert to ganging up or saying a terrible thing because of a mistake another pilot made as if they "the great one" has never made a mistake in their life. All I do is shake my head and smile. Humans make mistakes sometimes its not a reason to bully somebody. I'm very impressed that he could do all that. Thanks. You'd be surprised how many Pilots act like they are the only plane an ATC is working even tho she is nonstop talking sequencing Arrivals to one of the top 5 busiest airports in the USA!!! The other pilot had it right - he's a real a*&^. She was released later on. Not for nothing, but shes only got 2 guys in the area, coulda cleared him through. Please refer to the above referenced number on all future correspondence regarding this request. He's going to find it hard for anyone to swallow his excuses. Now he may have requested clearance BUT requesting clearance and being granted clearance are two different things. Sometimes ATC attitude causes the problems. It is really important to understand how severe the consequences can be. a responsibility to operate safely and competently within the FARs regardless of the price of your plane. He did not damage anybody. Pull that @$$holes license and give him a huge fine. I thought I was cleared, I have an ill 6 year old on board. Almost would have met you that day but water saved me. Tower: "N12345, I'll call your right turn north east. I was working the ER In Jerusalem and this belligerent teen was being kept there for observation post head trauma. The pilot never requested clearance into the class BRAVO airspace. he Karen Mosley apparetly is clueless about aviation. Yes humans make mistakes, and that is why aviation has the strictest protocols outside the nuclear industry. As such, he is supposed to go around the airspace. This is a willful/intentional violation of FAR and ATC instructions. I hope that this finds you well and safe, We apologize for the delay in response. Another pilot chimes in with his thoughts. Anyone flying under VFR (Visual Flight Rules) needs to hear the words You are cleared to enter the Bravo airspace before entering the Bravo airspace. Essentially, you have the right to be aware that you are in trouble after making a mistake. . This isnt a slap on the wrist type of offense. I love listening to air traffic control audio, either just live, or recordings of interesting interactions. The controller continues to direct other traffic including warning other planes in the area that N1NR is there and approximately where it is so that they do not collide with it as it has still not left Bravo. This guys ego trip does not trump the lives of the flying public and those on the ground who live under the pattern. If an air traffic controller has determined that the actions of a pilot have affected the safety of operation, then it is the controllers responsibility to notify the flight crew as soon as it is practical to do so. The belligerent behavior of the pilot with the controller and the sound of his voice makes me wonder if this might have been suffering from mild hypoxia. I'm flying.". The Original Donna: Class Bravo & Charlie airspace requires certain verbal permission to fly in/out/ and through it, but you have basic lack of understanding when it comes to the airspace system I fear. The best way to ensure that you do not get in any trouble is to stay vigilant, follow the rules, and file a report if you know that an error has occurred on your behalf. As a pilot, pilot deviation is something that you should avoid at all costs when possible, but what does it mean? The Federal Aviation Administration publishes quarterly a compilation of enforcement actions against regulated aviation entities that are closed with either a civil penalty or issuance of a certificate suspension or revocation. This letter acknowledges receipt of your FOIA request dated May 27, 2020, regarding any accident, investigation, pilot deviation reports, legal enforcement actions, or FSDO records, regarding a possible pivot deviation on June 20, 2020 where N731NR may have entered Bravo airspace without clearance. He flew right across the ILS approach glideslope to LAS 26 after he was told to vacate Bravo airspace recklessly endangering multiple lives. When Can You Deviate From an ATC Clearance? This may come as a shock to you, but us general aviation Cesena (sic) clowns have as much right to use the airspace as any commercial operation. He flew the plane and student back, Mom advised student (he wanted to finish he's flight) he was done until she discussed it with IP and Dad as owner and Chief Pilot. Almost everybody agrees the jerk was wrong and dangerously so. Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by WWFeldman, Oct 29, 2020. My reliable bet is that sometime between approach switching the aircraft to tower and the time the phone number is read, the pilot gave the tower controller a sob story. Can A Private Pilot Fly As A Sport Pilot. Go get him FAA!!! If this pilot had any sense he would have self reported because his flight recording through the area shows something different than what he thought. But you'd think that someone displaying this much attitude and disrespect for critical rules would have shown his true colors and been denied a license much earlier. NASTY ARGUMENT between Cessna Pilot and Vegas ATC! When an aircraft is approaching your airspace and the destination is on the opposite side, it's obvious that they're going to need to descend at some point. What almost everyone here is saying is correct (save for the C who ragged on GA pilots - the kind that most ATPS once were in order to get to where they are today- B!). It is quite apparent that the pilot is well versed in being an a**hole. The worst case scenario would not be to lose your certificate. Good luck. People get frustrated in the air just like they do in cars and dont get their license suspended. Commercial Pilot If you are in trouble for pilot deviation, the results could be very bad. . ATC Audio: Negligent Pilot Argues With Air Traffic Controller, I love listening to air traffic control audio, Not Good: Boom Overture Left Without Engines, Factorydesigns Innovative New Narrow Body Business Class Seat, Please view our advertising policy page for additional details about our partners. The guy is completely wrong, sad thing is he will probably only get a slap on the wrist. The Ultimate Guide On How To Become An Airline Pilot. Got it in there but lake was too short for lake off. LAS: "N1NR, possible pilot deviation, advise to contact Las Vegas approach. Almost everybody agrees the jerk was wrong and dangerously so. * See for example https://youtu.be/mUSUXnr4dSo, Subject: HQ: Request 2020-007191 under the Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S.C. Ill give you the number when youre ready to copy.Pilot: Im not ready to copy. But if it was just a misjudgment, and we all make those from time to time, the appropriate response would be to simply apologize to the Controller, then get out. When approach calls tower about a deviation, they may or may not give details. This pilot penatrated that airspace at what appears to have been approximately 4800. Sometimes pilots make a mistake and wrongly enter this zone which is deemed a violation. https://cdn.muckrock.com/foia_files/2020/09/15/FLM1_Phone_Call_N731NR_-_Redacted.wav. For purposes of these compilations, a regulated aviation entity holds a certificate issued by the FAA, (e.g., air carrier operating certificate, repair station certificate, pilot school certificate, airport operating certificate) or is a foreign air carrier or other aviation entity regulated under Part 129 of the Federal Aviation Regulations, 14 CFR Part 129. Plus..help us if weather becomes a problem, as it did yesterday..with vectors around threatening weather. The pilots is always in command, not the controller. Please provide this information by COB, on Friday July 17, 2020, or we will go with the last known requestor from MuckRock.com, who we are showing as Matthew Phelan. Everything is on tape. Review: EgyptAir Lounge Cairo Airport (CAI). 866.835.5322 (866-TELL-FAA)Contact Us, United States Department of Transportation, Aviation Safety Draft Documents Open for Comment, Airport Coronavirus Response Grant Program, Legislation & Policies, Regulations & Guidance, Certificated Remote Pilots including Commercial Operators, Recreational Flyers & Modeler Community-Based Organizations, Archived Quarterly Enforcement Reports (These reports date back to the first quarter of 1997. often don't recognize their own issue. Dad got home that night after his charter. But N1NR wants clearance nonetheless and is refusing to leave. Otherwise he'll have his license yanked in *very* short order. He never said he was unable to exit the Bravo due to terrain like he told the supervisor. Anything that may seem like a clearance but does not resemble those exact words is not a clearance. Or . 05:29PM CDT Abel Santa Maria - SNU.